Listen, so I get where your dad is coming from, I am not saying his is right, but I get it. But I am also not sure if my experiences even apply here because I have no idea how your dad, or you, were raised.

What I can say though, is if you or your parents grew up legit poor – going out to eat somewhere is a big ass deal, especially if you live in rural areas – it is an EVENT.

Order a beverage other than water? That’s a luxury for the rich.

And yes, most people who grew up with this mindset will NEVER order something more expensive than the person who is paying the bill. Because if you did, well some people think that is just plain opportunistic and rude.

There is an entirely different cultural psychology to this upbringing that your average middle class person (in the US at least) will never understand, but to many people, these are fundamental, yet unspoken, rules.

Perhaps talk to your dad to understand his viewpoint on this topic better. Just be honest that you were not trying to take advantage of his kindness, it was just an honest mistake.

And if he avoids talking about it, then it’s time to find some alternative strategies.

Next time he invites you out to eat, before you agree to go, clearly state that YOU will be the one paying for everyone. If he doesn’t accept that, then tell him that you are paying for your own families meals.

If he doesn’t accept that, then you need to figure out what is more important to you, letting your father pay the bill to keep his pride & dignity intact and guide your daughter to less expensive on the menu for one freakin meal, or let her inadvertently humiliate your dad by ordering something more expensive because you don’t think it is fair to limit her independence and options.

There are plenty of ways to navigate this situation, but having a basic convo with your dad is the first step. Do you know what his budget is or generally his expendable income? Are his behaviors ingrained in him from childhood or did he wake up last month and decide to be cheap cause he has a penchant for gambling and owes other people money?

Try to give your dad some grace for this single instance until you learn more and have better insight to his attitude and behavior eating out.

But if you don’t get reasonable answers, then just stop going out to eat with him if he always insists on paying himself.

Very soft ESH to NAH

There is an old rule about not ordering more expensive items when being treated- and using what the payer orders as a guide. How strictly ppl follow has changed, and that is difficult if you order first. There are also “rules” about who invites pays, etc. Again not everyone follows it.

It’s something I have to be very specific about with my Nana- when she’s being treated vs. welcome to join on her dime. She also follow the expense rule though if I am treating, and will ask to go Dutch if she wants a dessert or wine or something that goes over my order.

He messed up communicating to, at the time, a kid, and expecting it to stick. He should have talked to you directly as the parent. I can see him being a bit miffed you didn’t know if he thinks he taught it to you in the past.

Where you messed up is that you did know he already had communicated his expectations and you never brought it up, you carried on knowing and violated it. Even if you don’t agree with it.

Personally if I was getting to stay with someone free, I’d have paid for the meal, or at least let him know you are always happy to pay for her food if she wants something extra.

You can either just let it go and follow the rule going forward, or bring it up with the above solution.

Etiquette rules change, it’s ok to have different opinions and find a middle. Just communicate.

NTA – but your daughter will be invited to eat out by people who are not her family. Would she still feel she should be able to order just any old thing she wants, regardless of the price? At 15, she may already have been out to dinner with friends’ family. This is a discussion you need to have with her if she wants to be invited again. My son and d-i-l have always let their children order whatever they wanted, even as small children, and regardless of who is paying or how expensive. As grandparents, we never said anything. Our granddaughter would eat anything. Our grandson was really picky, so it was almost always chicken fingers if available. We’re frugal, but we saw them infrequently due to distance, so what the heck. You want lobster, Missy,? You got it.

Sounds like he just went ballistic over the word, *steak* as he doesn’t know the difference between *real* steak and a *cubed/tenderized* piece of the cheapest version of a “steak” there is. As a single mom, our favorite cheap meal was a chicken fried steak done with seasoned up bisquick and pounded out to a super thin, giant piece of meat and fried in peanut oil. You could cut those things with a fork and they tasted heavenly, especially with eggs (if we could afford both). Maybe one day on a grocery shop, take a photo of how cheap cubed steaks are and show him while it’s just the worst cut cubed to make it edible and people have come up with the tastiest of says of cooking them. Now I’m hungry!

This is a problem of poor communication. If someone who is paying the bill wants to limit what people order, they should state that. There were restaurants near me whose menu would have a list of “dinner specials”. For instance, the menu might have a list of entrees that are $10 each. I know people who would take their adult children to one of those restaurants and tell them to order from the $10 menu. This usually occurs with family members. My parents, who were raised during the Depression but ended up financially well off, were like that. But when they took us all out, if their intention was for everyone to order a certain way, they would tell us.

YTA, but only slightly. Mostly, it just sounds like you and your dad didn’t communicate very well. If you’re out to dinner with a group and one person is paying, if everyone else gets $15 meals and you get the $30 meal, it’s rude. Especially when you know the person paying doesn’t usually eat out at all because of the price.

If you didn’t feel comfortable saying “why don’t you order something a little smaller, honey” to your daughter when she went for the steak, it would’ve at least been polite to offer to pay half when the bill came. I probably would’ve offered to pay half regardless, knowing he doesn’t usually like to spend money on eating out.

No two people think identically and if your dad never shared his belief about ordering and price points then it’s presumptuous to assume everyone else must look at the world the same way. Finding out you “messed up” after the fact and without ever having knowledge of the “rules” is unfair. You did the right thing to apologize for any hurt caused but don’t need to beat yourself up for not adhering to a rule you didn’t know existed. As you can see from other comments not everyone even agrees there is such a rule. Now you know his expectations and are better able to manage in the future.

NTA – while we’re discussing etiquette – you should never take people out for a meal if you aren’t prepared to pay for anything meal on the menu…

Obviously, this isn’t valid if someone is intentionally fucking your bill up with drink orders, multiple apps, etc. But if someone orders a drink and an entree and you’ve offered to pay, then pay and keep quiet about it. It’s bad taste – if you can’t then ask people to pay their own way.

I’d have given my dad the money for both our meals and told him he’ll never buy us something again.

NTA and he sounds deranged. Maybe he is having a decline in his cognitive abilities?
I would be incredibly petty when ordering. I would ask for him to order first than ask the wait staff for a moment while you figure out the cost of his order, so you can be sure to order something that cost less. I wonder how important this belief of his would be to him if it was brought out in public? I also wonder if he would be having this conversation if you were a son or she was a grandson. I think he’s trying to put the women in their place.

NTA but only because you didn’t know.

The unspoken norm is that the host (the one paying) makes a comment about what they are getting. “Oh! The pancakes look so good. Perhaps I will get them.”

Then everyone else knows their “meal budget” and works within it.

Obviously, if the host just wants toast or a side of veggies then you have some more leeway.

Of course, your daughter is free to get the chicken fried steak. And your dad is welcome to not take you all out again. 

Your dad a is the AH for being so cheap over a reasonable meal that wasn’t wasted. Does he plan to take his wealth with him when he dies in about 15 years?

I’d limit my visits (definitely stay at a hotel to save him $3 in the extra water you used for a weekend) and insist on paying for my and my child’s meals since he insists on freaking out over an extra $5 or so for a meal

NTA

>I’m hoping to get an opinion at to whether I am in the wrong form thinking that my Dad’s “etiquette rule” is stupid and rude.

Yes it is. I’m almost 50 and I’ve never heard of this “rule.” It’s not “treating” someone if you’re dictating what they can get. That’s just being petty and cheap. You’re definitely NTA here.

Honestly, knowing your father is this cheap, if you eat out with him either pick up the check, order within his range (and yes, the recommendation for guests back in the day *was* to not exceed that the host orders) or say you don’t want to go. You aren’t going to convince him to care less about frugality. NTA

> I’m going back to my dad’s house this weekend,
If it comes to again, am I the asshole here?

I don’t understand. Are you asking if you’re an asshole if your Dad brings it up again? No, if you dad chooses this specific topic of conversation, that would not make you an asshole.

Frankly I would tell your father that if he cannot afford the extra $5 or so then you will pay for the meals out. If he has cost restrictions for his “treat” then it’s not a treat or should be made known beforehand. He should know what assume means, i.e. makes an ass out of me.

I have absolutely no problem paying for meals. I’d be more than happy to. However, I think my Dad would consider it a slight. He’d be bothered/irritated that I was trying to skirt his rule. I don’t want to make things any worse, of that makes sense .

Happy Cake Day!

NTA. I think this is a good rule of thumb when dining out with strangers or family you’re not close too but otherwise it’s kinda silly. I’d tell him my daughter knows how to act in polite company and you’re fine covering the difference since it’s all in the family. 

If cost is an issue for Gramps, he could’ve said she could order whatever but keep the total under X. I mean, that’s how we did it as kids. “How much can we spend, Mom?” and then we’d get creative: multiple apps, a meal, a dessert and a beverage, etc

NTA

If someone else is paying I always try to not go overboard but with that said a chicken fried steak at a diner is a standard meal. And I wouldn’t necessarily expect a 15yo to even think about it as it’s her grandfather taking her out. Very strange

NTA. Why don’t you pay for dinner next time. I get the frustration. My brother is the same way. He’s 71, retired from a very good job, has a great pension and is super cheap. He goes to the crappiest diner and complains about the cost.

NTA. Unless you order steak and lobster or something ridiculous like that, being a few bucks more than the payer is fine. I would not go out to eat anymore with him or I would just pay for myself from now on. 

So if grandpa I only feels like coffee and toast, what do the rest of you do? Starve? Definitely not about etiquette but his need to thrust his opinions of frugality on you or your lack thereof.

Yeah, I’d argue that in normal company, it’s a lot ruder to assume that a person with multiple rental properties who has invited you out for a meal can’t afford chicken fried steak at a diner.

I would just offer to pay him the different. He will likely say no and feel that it is rude that he offered. Hopefully this will then open up a conversation where you can discuss further.

Your dad has a weird sense of etiquette. What she ordered is perfectly fine. It’s not like she ordered the most expensive items on the menu!

NTA

Nta – just pay for your own meals. Also, pay attention to your dad’s behavior, irritability or short fuse may be signs of early dementia.

NTA, cheapness is a very ugly quality in people. It’s fine that she ordered that, steak in a diner is not gojng to be super-expensive.

I’ve never heard of such a rule. Did he mention any rules before you ordered? Or were you just expected to know his thoughts?