The major conflicts involve Frank forbidding any mention of the OP’s late father in his presence, even during significant family moments, and Frank heavily controlling the OP and his sister’s contact with their late father’s side of the family. When the OP and his sister expressed their wish not to have a relationship with Frank, their mother insisted they must accept him to maintain a relationship with her, leading the siblings to cease contact with their mother. Now, following the OP’s engagement, the conflict has resurfaced intensely over the wedding plans, leaving the OP questioning if he is at fault for excluding Frank.
My mom has me (27m) and my sister (29f) with our late dad. He died when I was 10 and my sister was 12 and when I was 15 my mom got remarried. Her husband is “Frank” (fake name). From the very start my sister and I had issues with Frank.
We have bigger and smaller issues.
The two big issues are/were;
1) He insisted that nobody mention dad in his presence. Didn’t matter who we were with or where we were it was not allowed. This included the times he tagged along when we went to see anyone from dad’s side of the family.
He would invite himself and then enforce this rule or he’d make us leave. Mom let this happen. Even on dad’s anniversary or birthday we couldn’t talk about him if Frank was around and that included asking mom if she wanted to come to the grave with us.
Frank actually yelled at my sister during her graduation dinner because she had mentioned dad in her speech.
2) He inserted himself deeply into the relationship with our dad’s side of the family. We could visit anyone on mom’s side without issue. He didn’t even care if we said anything to him.
But the second it was someone from dad’s side and he found out we only mentioned it to mom he would scold us and insist we needed to ask his permission to see them. Then he’d tag along frequently and invite himself to see them too.
This went for a lot of stuff. Mom had already stopped coming with us before she even met Frank. But he insisted on being there and if my sister or I said we didn’t want him to come then he told us we couldn’t go.
If whoever we went to see didn’t want Frank inside the house he’d say then we weren’t allowed inside either. Once my sister moved out he was pissed that she spent more time with dad’s side and he tried to tell her what to do still.
She was having none of it.
My sister and I talked to mom about ALL our issues with Frank and we told her we didn’t want a relationship with him. She always told us we needed to have one with him to have one with her.
We took her at her word and my sister stopped talking to her and once I moved out so did I. We stopped going to see her or spending holidays with her (and Frank). We didn’t invite her over or initiate any contact.
She brought it up a few times how we were bad at maintaining the relationship and we told her we weren’t. We just weren’t maintaining it but she ignored us. She tried to come and see us a few times.
We told her no Frank so she never came. We let her birthday pass without any acknowledgement and when she’d tell us about Frank’s birthdays we’d work to forget the date.
A few weeks ago I got engaged. I didn’t tell my mom or ask anyone else to but the news got to her. She was upset she didn’t hear it from me and upset I said no to he throwing an engagement party for us.
She never even met my fiancée which was something else that upset her. She asked how she’s supposed to meet her for the first time at the wedding and I told her she’s not supposed to.
I said she won’t be invited. My mom did not expect that at all and she asked me why. I told her Frank is not welcome and she made it perfectly clear she won’t come. I reminded her that she said we can’t have a relationship with her if we won’t have one with Frank and I told her it would be over my dead body that I have a relationship with him.
My mom said we were supposed to love her enough to accept Frank and I told her I do not have to have a relationship with the man who would kick up a fuss over my dad being mentioned in his presence and who tried to control the relationship I had with my family.
I reminded her dad is still my dad and I’d find a way to incorporate his memory into the wedding. I asked her if Frank would tolerate that or if he’d start yelling like at my sister’s graduation.
She told me she doesn’t want to lose both her kids and she loves us. I told her we love her but we’re not willing to accept that man she calls a husband. Then she told me I was being so unfair and when she said what she did we could have talked about it more.
That reminding her like this wasn’t right. I said this was the consequences of her actions. I told her I could live with the consequences of not accepting Frank. That I can sleep fine at night knowing our relationship is what it is.
And it isn’t my problem if she can’t do the same.
Now she’s upset and angry and apparently I’m the bad guy in her eyes. AITA?
Conclusion
The core conflict rests on the OP’s firm boundary against accepting Frank, a boundary established due to years of emotional control and disrespect regarding the OP’s deceased father. This boundary directly conflicts with the mother’s ultimatum that maintaining a relationship with her requires accepting Frank, placing the OP in a position where he feels his need for emotional protection clashes with his desire to preserve his relationship with his mother.
Given the mother’s consistent enforcement of Frank’s unacceptable behavior and her stated condition for maintaining contact, the central question becomes whether the OP is justified in treating the consequence (no relationship) as finalized, or if he should have pursued further negotiation now that the stakes involve his wedding and fiancée.
Here’s how people reacted:
But it seems clear to me that your mom is trying, really really hard, to balance her own life and a lot of people that she loves. I really wish she could see and understand how easy it would be to have a relationship with you and your sister. She wouldn’t even need to leave Frank, just accept that she needs to have a relationship with him, and a separate relationship with you, and that you’re never going to have one big happy relationship. Maybe you’re over it, maybe you’re still hurting, but your mom is hurting too. If there’s ANY room for compromise, I really hope you and she find it. If my kid ever told me I wasn’t invited to their wedding, for any reason, I’d be devastated and distraught. I just hope I’d be better than your mom and be able to reflect on the why.
If he is so jealous of your father that he has a tantrum when your father is mentioned, he doesn’t need to be there.
Especially when it comes to being at your fathers’s family’s events and having a hissy fit because someone dares to mention him.
Your mother should have backed you and your sister up and shut him down in the beginning. (Even in the manner of explaining it to a child “Now, this is an event for John’s family to talk about John. You can go but only if you agree not to be mad when they talk about John”)
And if Frank had a dummy spit because your sister reasonably mentioned your late father in her speech, I don’t think he will be able to handle your wedding when it highly likely your father will be mentioned. If your mother can’t handle going without Frank there, unfortunately she will have to respect your wishes
What the fuck is it with parents who remarry someone who hates their dead spouse? And then back up the new spouse on removing all images or conversation about the past spouse? I don’t care if you want to make your marriage work, clearly it won’t work if that person is that much of a fucking psycho to have beef with someone dead! Especially someone who you never met or did anything wrong. How is that not a red flag to see someone beefing with the deceased? Lol.
And if you think ”oh no one else will love me so i’ll settle for the crazy one”, full stop, go to therapy, lol.
Your mother should have gone to therapy vs marrying that guy. I’m on your side for cutting her off and him too. I’m sorry she lost her husband and you lost your dad, but her #1 priority should have been her kids.
Your mother demonstrated a simple fact, she loved her second husband more than she loves you. She proved this by okaying his attempts to remove and police the memory of your father, she proved it when she allowed him to act abusive towards you and your sister, she proved it most of all when she explicitly said that a relationship with her required one with him.
What your mom needs to accept is simply that, by giving that really toxic ultimatum, she essentially set this stage. A relationship with her husband should have been optional after all he’s done, but she tried to control you in her own way by holding a relationship with her hostage. She played herself.
>now she’s upset & angry
All that tells me is that she hasn’t accepted responsibility for her wrongdoing. For choosing your abuser over you & doesn’t like that it comes with consequences. You may still love her, but to me, your mother is just as guilty as Frank for what you endured. Feel free to unload your truth on he, you need & certainly deserve to let it all out.
Frank is a controlling POS who clearly works cua alienating people from others. Every chance she realises Frank was a mistake but feels she has nobody else to go to, because he succeeded in cutting her off.
The olive branch of “we still love and want to see you, not him.” Even if she never takes it, is the right thing.
I am curious though, this Frank guy seems like a control freak a-hole, but I’m curious why. Did he have any prior friendship with your late father? A guy like Frank doesn’t go to great lengths to essentially, erase your late father’s existence from the world without a reason. He obviously petty guy.
You can also tell us if your stepdad is a deadbeat.
You repeatedly told her, and she ignored it.
> we were supposed to love her enough to accept Frank
There’s not enough love in the world to love a jerk I have no relation to.
> she doesn’t want to lose both her kids and she loves us.
She chose him over her own kids. What did she expect?
You could just stop answering her.
Actions (or inactions, what the FUCK was she doing with that asshole?) have consequences.
I’m glad you and your Sister have each other, you have your fiance, and you’re making your own family and tribe where there’s respect and not abusive control.
Hugs from afar, OP. You’re nailing it.
She set a boundary and you accepted it. If you want to include your dad in the wedding you should put a framed picture of him there. That’s what we did with my step son’s mom that passed. You can’t invite your mom, or you are inviting disaster for the big day
Your NTA.. your mum should have protected you from “Franks” overbearing and Frankly abusive behaviours
“I insist on tagging along if you visit your dad’s family, and making sure you don’t mention him.”
Stick to your guns. Well done.
Your mother issued the terms of being part of her life. They were too high a price to pay. She doesn’t get to play the victim now.
And yet she didn’t love you enough to reject Frank.
Stand by them.
Blood is the life we are born into … family is who we choose to be with.
Your mother chose Frank over her daughters. That’s not how it works.
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😂