When Jessica returned from her grandparents’ house, her spirit was heavy with disappointment and hurt. The warmth she had hoped to find was replaced by cold rejection, revealing how deeply intertwined faith and family acceptance had become, and how painful the journey to self-discovery can be when it clashes with the expectations of those we cherish most.
I understand religion can be a touchy subject sometimes, so I’ll try to tread carefully.
My daughter “Jessica” (22F) dropped the bombshell that she was going to be an atheist and did not wish to attend church services anymore unless necessary (weddings, funerals, etc.).
As her mother, I was initially shocked and rather hurt because I raised her as a Catholic, but we had lengthy discussions and worked through the adjustment together. Since then, Jessica has been happy with the new arrangements as am I.
After finishing a quarter of summer school and with more free time on her hands, Jessica decided to drive up to visit her grandparents and planned to stay there for the rest of the summer before the school year started again.
But not even one week into her stay, Jessica drove home upset.
She told me that when her grandparents were prepping for church, as they always do every Saturday, Jessica mentioned that she was now an atheist and did not want to attend church anymore and would wait for them to get home before resuming activities together.
But her grandmother blew up upon hearing the news and started saying hurtful comments, like how Jessica would be “punished by Him” and how she was being “manipulated by evil spirits,” to say the least…
The two apparently quarreled for a good half hour or so before Jessica decided to leave. According to my daughter, she tried to have a thoughtful conversation but said her grandmother was too stubborn and unwilling to listen despite grandfather’s attempts to calm the situation.
She still forced Jessica to go to church and that was when Jessica decided to leave.
After tending to Jessica’s needs, I called my mother up and she told me I was a terrible parent for raising a “soulless child.” I argued back saying that Jessica is an adult and was entitled to her own beliefs and lack thereof as were we.
I questioned my mother if she loved her grandchild any less now that she did not believe in the same “higher power.” My mother deflected and kept repeating that Jessica was a “sinner” and she would “go to Hell” if I didn’t fix her behavior.
Getting nowhere and in the spur of the moment, I impulsively ended the call by saying, “You know what, I’d rather burn for all eternity if (grand)parents like you were in Heaven.”
Now I’m very torn because I let my emotions get the better of me and may have ruined my relationship with my mother over my reckless, curt response. However, I also wasn’t willing to let her talk about my daughter this way either.
Conclusion
The original poster (OP) is experiencing significant distress after defending her adult daughter’s decision to leave the Catholic faith against the strong disapproval of the grandmother. While the OP initially handled her daughter’s transition well, the conflict escalated when she impulsively reacted to her mother’s harsh judgment regarding her daughter’s ‘soul,’ leading to a potentially damaged relationship with her own mother.
Did the OP overreact by using an emotionally charged statement against her mother when defending her daughter’s autonomy, or was her reaction a justified defense against severe emotional abuse directed at her child? Should the priority be repairing the intergenerational rift or maintaining a firm boundary against spiritually abusive language?
Here’s how people reacted:
YTA. According to your belief system your daughter has come to you stating she has made a decision that you believe will result in an ETERNITY of torture. You should be doing everything in your power to stop her and not be accepting of her position. Ultimately you can’t stop her but this is not just something a Christian can accept and move on.
Your mother, while I deeply disagree with her use of insults, did her best to save her granddaughter for making this horribly decision that will lead to her eternal torture. After hearing this you yelled at her and said you would rather be tortured for eternity than deal with her not accepting your daughters decision to accept that torture.
Edit for Clarity, I’ve kept the old post if you’d like to re-read it.
~~Before I say this I want to say this is reflective of how fucked up religion is and only holds true if you yourself are Christian and believe in it’s teachings. I do not believe what I’m about to say but I do think that you should. This verdict changes to NTA and I laude you for supporting your daughter if you are Atheist or don’t believe in hell.~~
~~YTA. According to your belief system your daughter has come to you stating she has made a decision that you believe will result with 100% certainty in an ETERNITY of torture. You should be doing everything in your power to stop her and not be accepting of her position. This is similar to your child wanting to jump off a 20ft bridge with rocks at the bottom or use acid for eye drops. As a parent you can’t just say “Well they’re an adult I’ll let them make their own decisions”. Ultimately you can’t stop her but this is not just something a Christian can accept and move on.~~
~~Edit changed to YTA: The more I think about it the more Grandma acted reasonably. After doing her best to persuade your daughter from the established eternity of torture, you said you would rather suffer that fate than deal with her trying to save your daughter from it.~~
(Preface – I am an atheist who has studied a lot of religious texts and religions as cultural structures)
You can’t force someone to have belief. You can ask them to live their life in a kind thoughtful caring way – and this – if you read the bible properly is what the New Testament and teachings of Jesus repeat over and over again. God rewards people not for going to church and praying (ie creating the appearance of being a good Christian) but actually living like good Christians in how they behave and treat others. It’s not like a punch in time card – “hey I did my 52 church visits a year and so get an entry pass for heaven”.
It’s about kindness and charity and forgiveness and acceptance (this is all the stuff I love about Christian beliefs). It’s not about our way is the only way and you’ll be dammed in hellfire and you must follow every single archaic rule that doesn’t fit with modern life (all the things I hate about Christianity as an organised religion).
Unfortunate Catholicism as an organised religion has tended to forget this along the way and got more focused on the rituals than on the way you live your everyday life. Jesus specifically says not to condemn those who sin or judge them but to welcome them with open arms and encourage them to behave differently. Church is meant to be for learning about how to behave different and interpret the teachings not to demonstrate how devout you are.
Your mother, quite frankly, is not being a good Christian.
Your daughter will find her own way. If I end up going to church, I approach it as a peaceful time to think internally about my life and how I behave and treat others – it’s not a compromise to my atheism or the worst thing to have to do.
ESH:
* Grandma (Biggest TA): for trying to dictate beliefs to another person. She was trying to impose adherence to rituals, but religion is about faith and one cannot force anyone else to believe.
* OP (Medium TA): because that statement was way over the top if coming from a believer to another believer. Calling someone worst than an eternity in hell. Yikes
* Jessica (Mild TA): for getting so worked up when she should expect adverse reactions from believers. It seems her atheism is new. As a non-believer those comments are not at all hurtful. They are no different than someone wishing the big spaghetti monster douse me with his marinara sauce , Zeus does sexual violence (apparently that’s all Zeus used to do), or Thor strike me with his hammer. Just nonsense.
I do think your daughter may want to reconsider when and how she broaches the topic with people. If her grandmother is the type to tell her she is being manipulated by evil spirits, she’s likely very Christian and has been her whole life. “coming out” by dropping the bombshell right before church was stupid. I say this as an atheist. There are better ways she could have approached that. You were immature and overly emotional when you told your mother you’d rather burn in hell then have grandparents like her. ESH
I read something recently that was like: “if God makes us all in his image, why do atheists exist?”. The answer is that atheists don’t have a higher power to answer to, or repercussions if they sin. Every nice thing they do is completely 100% of their own free will, generously, and without any expectation of reward (in heaven). So when you see atheists volunteering at soup kitchens or helping the poor, it can remind you that humans are kind. If anyone has read this recently & want to link it, I’m sure it’s much more eloquent than what I put here.
>I was initially shocked and rather hurt … but we had *lengthy discussions and worked through the adjustment together*. Since then ….. been happy with the new arrangements as am I.
Seems like you weren’t immediately accepting of her choice in the span of *one* conversation –so why are you *both* expecting grandma to understand when blindsided walking out the door for church? Especially when its no secret that our grandparents and the elderly are generally a bit more stubborn and set in their ways.
NOT saying she was right…simply playing devil’s advocate.
Frankly, I’ll never understand the schizoid belief that some believers (like your own mom) have, that their God is both loving and willing to torture you eternally for not believing in them. For believing that their God is both omnipotent and yet also pathetically narcissistic in needing to be worshipped by everyone.
NTA.
If her priest is not an idiot he will tell your mother to apologise. Perhaps your dad could engineer that conversation?
I’m not a believer, but two of the things I like about Christianity are the way it stresses humility by it adherents and how it encourages us to be constructive about our mistakes.
You’re NTA for the principle of standing up for your daughter, and you’re NTA for losing your temper in the face of severe provocation either.
Could you have handled it differently? Well, yes, but you know that already. There is, however, no particular reason why you should have – your mother isn’t entitled to behave that way and expect you to just shrug it off.
That grandmother is fucking awful, she had no right to act that way. NTA, and thank you for being so accepting of your daughter’s beliefs. You have no idea how uncommon that really is.
This is something that should have been discussed in advance so there was no need for all this drama
‘Jessica is an adult and was entitled to her own beliefs and lack thereof as were we.’