I am an early childhood educator. I agree that children should experience appropriate consequences to help them understand how their actions affect others, themselves and their environment. My program called this approach “No Nonsense Nurturing”.

I question if your consequence was appropriate. I don’t know if a 4.5 year old is able to connect “being mean” and saying “I don’t love you” at night to you not wanting to play with him the next morning. You might be inadvertently teaching your child something you aren’t intending to.

I would recommend clear communication in the moment when he is “being mean”, explicitly labeling what behaviors he is doing that are mean and proactively communicating what the consequences will be if he continues to be mean:

“[4.5 years old] when you say ‘you don’t love daddy’, and, behavior y and behavior z you are being mean to me. Daddy and other people don’t like to play with kids when they are being mean. If you are going to continue make daddy feel sad by being mean, he will not continue play with you for now and you will have to (go to time out for 15 minutes, play by yourself, whatever consequence is appropriate for your family).

This way you clearly label what behaviors are the issue for his developing mind, explicitly tell him why this behavior is an issue, and proactively let him know what will happen if the behavior continues so he can begin to decide to change his behavior to avoid the consequence, or better connect his behavior to the consequence if he doesn’t change his behavior.

YTA but your wife is too.

You waited way too long for the consequence. Kids at that each need immediate consequences to connect their behavior with the consequence. Refusing to play with him *the next day* is just going to confuse and upset him without accomplishing anything. 

Your wife is TA because she is not setting healthy boundaries for your kid. 

And both of you are the assholes because you don’t understand what your 4.5 year old is actually trying to communicate to you. A preschooler who is screaming, crying, throwing toys, and claiming to no longer love you (*at bedtime*) is actually saying, “hey Dad, I’m fucking exhausted and I have no idea what to do about it.” The solution is not to tolerate the behavior (as your wife does) *or* punish it (as you did). The solution is to *put him to bed.*

Just immediate, go to bed, go directly to bed do not pass go, do not collect $200. 

Both parents should stay calm, firm, loving, and yes *gentle* in the face of this bedtime tirade. It will pass as soon as he passes out, which should be soon because what you described is an overtired child.

*Do not for the love of God take anything that child says to you personally.* He’s 4 ffs. They say all sorts of shit that make you think they might be psychopaths, and then they grow out of it.

Anyway good luck and God speed.

A mom of 4, including a 4 year old

YTA

Punishing the kid would only reinforce his feelings and probably make him feel like you don’t love him.

OP, you are just ignoring the problem instead of dealing with it. It’s important to name the feelings. When he throws a tantrum ask him if he is mad. Make him name his feeling. He needs to start recognizing them. Then ask him why he is mad. Let him try to figure things out… to a certain extent. He is only 5.

At 5 years old, he doesn’t understand the concepts of good and bad yet. So punishing him because your feelings got hurt is an asshole move. He is not even 5 yet. Of course he doesn’t understand that what he told you was hurtful. He didn’t tell you to hurt you. He told you this because he doesn’t know how to deal with his feelings.

Also, a child that doesn’t want to go to bed need a routine prior to bed time. Make him eat at the same hour everyday. Make him take his bath after. Then time for a calm game (book, legos, etc.). Then, a few minutes before bed time, tell him that his bedtime is in one minute. Prepare him.

It’s not a perfect method, but the best way to deal with this behaviour is routine, routine, routine.

Your wife and you are going into permissive parenting territory.

Natural consequences is that the toys he throws are put away immediately removed from the vicinity for an extended period. OR he needs to be physically picked up and placed somewhere he and you and the things in your house are safe.

(When he’s calm he has to go pick them all up and put them away)

When this happens to me, I take my kid into his room. I sit next to the door inside the room with him. If he hits me, I hold him and clearly say “I will not let you hit me if you do that again, I’m going to sit outside the door until you tell me you’re ready to not hit”.

I don’t leave him, I’m right outside the door if it comes to it, and always ready to come in when he says he’s ready – which is very quickly.

I say always – you can be angry, but you cannot throw our things, be rude or physical.

Be firm but kind.

Also my kid now has come to rearranging furniture when he’s mad because he knows he absolutely cannot throw things. So he moved all the dining chairs to another room. Haha. (He moves them back when he’s calm)

Parent here of kids a few years older than yours. So been around gentle parenting movement entire time. Gentle parenting absolutely involves consequences, understanding feelings (including the “victim’s” pov), & conflict resolution. Tbh that style of parenting clearly works for some but def not for all kids.
Sounds like you need to retune the preschool kid basics. Set boundaries. You clearly are a master of natural consequences (lean into it). But above all check online for how many hours pf sleep your kid needs each day (set rigid bedtime) & begin bedtime routine an hour (or more) before. This avoids the confrontation & begins process of bedtime before they bottom out. Of course some days they need to go to bed even earlier. It’s amazing how much sleep they require & how massively it affects their behavior.

There’s a difference between ‘gentle parenting’ and ‘permissive parenting’ – it sounds like your wife falls into the latter category.

Your son has just encountered the ‘natural consequences’ your wife is so eager for him to experience – he was mean and now you don’t want to play. Those *are* the natural consequences of his actions. He will *not* ‘grow to learn’ anything unless you as his parents teach him.

Side note: picking a child each to raise is a bad idea. It will breakdown family dynamics and cause issues in the future.

You and your wife need to get on the same page with **both** your children right now.

Edit for judgement: ESH.

NTA, “Gentle parenting” is great, but so is teaching your kid that throwing tantrums and saying “I don’t love you anymore” isn’t how we communicate.
He’s 4, sure, but he’s also testing boundaries. Kids need to learn that actions have consequences, throwing toys = no playtime with dad, for example. Your wife may be a fan of natural consequences, but you’re trying to teach him that being an emotional little gremlin has its limits. It’s okay to want a little peace and respect after being screamed at, so don’t worry.

he’s likely over tired by the time bed rolls around. try getting him to sleep a bit earlier. also, gentil parenting still has consequences. sounds like what your wife might be doing is permissive parenting. you’re right, he’ll never learn if he’s not guided, which you both need to do. soft YTA, because instead of going ‘hey buddy, that really hurt my feelings’ and explaining why it wasnt nice, you werent nice back. you and your wife need to also sit down and talk, and get on the same page about parenting styles.

You need to maintain that energy about teaching your son that there Rẹ consequences for bad behavior.
You have a 6 month old child in the house. 

One misthrown toy in the wrong direction could cause  serious injury. 
Your wife isn’t doing your son any favors. 

She is sending him out into the world for teachers and peers to deal with his bratty behavior because she doesn’t want to parent her son. 

He isn’t going to outgrow that behavior unless it’s nipped in the bud, it’s only going to get worse. 

NTAH 

Your wife is the AH here. She is enabling this behavior. Your son is learning to manipulate situations and people. Yes 5 year old’s can do this. Soon when he starts school and doesn’t know boundaries he will either not make friends or cause issues in the class. Mommy will be there to tell the teacher his issues are the teachers fault because she made him do something he did want to do. ” Not my baby” is a common statement. I wish you luck. I have seen this scenario so many times these last few years.

I am not sure that you went about it right but you aren’t TA for wanting your child to have consequences. Children crave structure and they can only learn when they know there is a consequence. At his age, I would have talked to him about in the moment and then in the morning gently reminded him before you play about being nice. Only if he continued being rude would I stop playing until he was nice again. At his age, it can be difficult for them to understand a consequence from the day before.

My lord. If this is your life, your life is ragebait.

NTA. Your wife is an AH and the world will continue to suffer the consequences of her awful parenting choices. My gov. Her kid should “never feel like he has to share”? I’m on the fucking floor.

Time for some executive decisions. And fair, consistent consequences. You are his primary caregiver. You start enacting exoectations and consequences for his behavior/choices. You are his parent. Parent him.
It’s late but not too late.

You and your wife are TA, congratulations on raising a child with no consequences about to start school. Wait until he gets upset with another child because he’s tired, cranky, having a moment and starts throwing things at them and saying rude, mean things. Good luck explaining to the school you’re “gentle parenting” aka we let our child do anything and everything he wants and never give consequences.

OK, so when you see those kids throwing a tantrum in a restaurant or punching another kid in a playground, while the parents say, “Oh, little Tarquin is just expressing himself”, who do you think the AH is, the kid or the parent who refuses to discipline them? The kid is a brat, but the AH is the parent.

It’s our job as parents to teach kids lessons in life. NTA, but your wife is.

“Gentle parenting” is essentially not parenting. Fight me if you want, but I die on this hill.

Parenting is hard. It’s messy and draining and infuriating, and it’s a damn good thing that kids are cute. It’s a lifetime engagement, and when you don’t put the time and energy into guiding and teaching the lives placed in your hands, you get … well, what these non-parented kids are.

Someone not wanting to play with you because you hurt them is a natural consequence not a punishment

I do think you need to speak to him and explain that it was because of him throwing toys etc that you don’t want to play not because he said how he felt (I know your child telling you they don’t love you hurts but they feel how they feel)

Gentle parenting includes punishment. No shouting but clear explanations warning and punishment. I gentle parent my daughter but if she’s out of line and doesn’t correct her behaviour when I explain that’s bad she goes into time out. Your wife is enabling him and his behaviour if going to get alot worse as he gets older if she carries on.

Your wife is the assh*le for having terrible ideas about how to parent. No sharing? WTF? Perfect way to raise an entitled prick.

But you are also overreacting. You can’t punish a 5 year old the next day. You have to address the issue at the time it happens. And denying your child and yourself bonding time isn’t the way to go.

I would argue the way to deal with this would be to talk to your son about why something like that isn’t nice to say. You could easily turn it back on him and ask if he would feel okay about you saying that to him. 

You’re the adult here. Punishment doesn’t fit the crime. Ignoring your kid ain’t the way to go. 

He at least should have quiet time in his room, even if he does nap. There needs to be appropriate consequences to actions. Get a time out chair and if he starts throwing a tantrum he goes into it. I admit I don’t know much about this gentle parenting, but it sounds like you’re raising a monster.

You are concentrating on him while his mother is concentrating on the 6.month old daughter. It wouldn’t surprise me at all that he is really missing time with his mother. Have you tried alternating days? You have the daughter while she has the son, and the next day flip it.

As long as your wife has funds for a nice attorney on retainer because she is likely raising a future turd that will need one in life.

If you don’t humble this kid and raise him properly, world will thrust humbleness upon him by force and it will not be on his terms.

NTA your wife has no idea what gentle parenting is. Gentle parenting still enforced boundaries. Your reaction IS a natural consequence anyway. If you are mean to people, they won’t want to be around you…

I’d be willing to bet your wife is pretty mean to you, too…

Consequences should have been in place way back. Throw something at me? Fine. Now it’s mine. Yell at me? We all be silent to recoop from the drama.

You two need a big big talk about this. Gentle parenting is NOT just let the kid get away with anything.

I understand where you are coming from. Our actions have consequences, and if your son’s behavior is progressingly getting worse, then “gentle parenting” isn’t working. IMO, you shouldn’t have waited until the morning to handle your son and his behavior.

“Natural consequences” doesn’t mean no consequences. It means natural consequences. So you have it right. Child is mean, you don’t want to play with them. Child throws toys, toy breaks and is not repaired, or toy is taken away

Esh. Your wife for not studying gentle parenting, and you for making up consequences that last overnight. You should probably be looking into the behaviourist approach, and make sure everything is resolved before bedtime.

Your wife claims to be a fan of natural consequences. What does she think the natural consequences of being mean to someone are? In my book it’s, “that person no longer wants to be around you”.

Fix this behavior now, before it becomes his normal. It looks like a small problem now when they are small and weak. Until they get bigger and those outburst have real consequences.

Kids need discipline. My 3 year old gets timeouts. If he throws a toy at me, I say no throwing toys sternly. If he does it again, I’m taking the toy away and he’s going to timeout.

You are also a parent. It’s not just up to your wife to set the rules, it’s a mutual discussion and agreement. Talk it out with your wife and make the changes you need.

Your wife is actually in the wrong children are raised entitled and it’s get worse everyone at every age should feel consequences of personal actions

NTA. Your wife should be all for this. It is a natural consequence. When you’re mean to people, they don’t want to be around you.

You not wanting to play is a natural consequence. Your wife is going to fuck up this kids ability to function in society.

If the problem is that your kid doesn’t nap, have you considered making your kid nap?

Dude, he’s not even 5 years old. Stop stooping to the level of a little boy. YTA

r/daddit is always here for you bro