NTA. Honestly, in my opinion you under-reacted. You handled this with so much grace and I respect you for that but this man feels that committing himself to you is a trap. He has intentionally led you on for years, dangling the carrot of marriage in front of you and placating you with maybes. Whatever his doubts were, he never valued you enough to communicate them with you. He never treated you like a partner to work things out with, he sat alone with his thoughts and doubts, keeping you quiet with empty words to avoid the conversation, and laughed about it with his buddies.

IMO you should have made it a bigger deal. You should have made it a conversation. Because you’re both just silencing parts of your feelings to keep the peace, and eventually that silence is going to rip an even wider hole in the fabric of your relationship if you don’t address it.

Do you want to get married? What does marriage mean to you? Is it just a thing that people do that you’re happy to forget for your relationship? Or is it a want that you’re silencing for fear of being alone? What *are* his pros and cons? What is marriage to him? Is he worried about the expense, has he seen too many people divorce? Or is he keeping himself open to other options?

You need to know and discuss these things if you want to move forward from this.

No. You’ve got the right end of the stick: he doesn’t want to get married. I’m not sure whether he doesn’t want to get married ‘yet’ or ‘never’. What I do know is that he puts more trust into what those guys said (regardless of whether that’s actually true or not!) than in his relationship with you. I do admire for being so cool and collected when giving him his ring back and for being very (outwardly?) rational about it. It’s kind of hilarious that your bf now backtracks, because that’s what he’s doing. You have two options as I see it: let things be as they are now and just wait until he’s ready. It could be next year, it could be never. Do you want that? The other option is to leave. That’s much more scary and you should think about having a job, a network, family or friends around, financials. Oh, and there’s the third option: you stay, but you make sure you have options if you didn’t have them already. Whether you get married or not should be a matter between you two. Your bf has admitted a bunch of guys into the decision-making process without your input. That doesn’t bode good for any type of relationship, married or not.

okay hold on , you’ve been engaged for four years , survived a pandemic , a pregnancy , and a potluck planning session , only to hear that he’s “dragging his feet” because marriage is some mysterious “trap” ? yikes. handing the ring back was the calmest “nah , we’re not doing this” move you could’ve pulled. sounds like he’s treating marriage like it’s a life sentence , when really , it’s just a party with cake and a promise to keep putting up with each other. honestly , if he’s that defensive over a hypothetical wedding color , maybe he needs to go back to the drawing board on what commitment really means. so no , you’re definitely not the asshole – you’re just saving yourself a lifetime of “weighing pros and cons” over breakfast !!

NTA

You really should ask him what changed from right after he proposed and was so excited to plan a wedding. Beyond the worry about taxes. Beyond anything financial. You said he was so excited. What changed for him?

This is something that may need to be addressed with couples therapy because even though he told you in the beginning that he didn’t want to ever get married, at some point that changed. Of course a lot happened in the interim. But how and why did it change his enthusiasm? I get that for you it’s not a big deal to get married or not but why would he even bring it to the table?

I wish you all the best and I hope you can find answers to this sudden shift.

>But anyways, my fiancé then starts laughing and goes “that’s why I’ve been dragging my feet on marriage” 

Sadly that’s the safest response a dude can say when other dudes are saying their marriage is crumbling. I’ve made the same joke at large gatherings and my partner knows I’m joking since we regularly talk about marriage (and I recently bought the ring after being +4 years together)

> “I think we need to weigh the pros and cons of being married first” and shut down the conversation. 

This on the other hand is definitely not okay. As others have said, y’all have a kid AND it’s been a 4 year engagement. What else is there to think about? 

What’s obvious is that you need to have a serious talk. Between the two of you. Not a back and forth where you react to overheard comments.

Let’s presume everything is exactly as you heard it and understood it… I’d think that is worthy of a conversation. Let’s say he feels more strongly than you think he does… that discovery is also in the other side of the conversation. Personally, I’m curious what he means by pros and cons of marriage. Aren’t you?

Not the asshole and I think you’ve behaved perfectly normally. I just think there’s a better ending than the one you’re resigned to have.

Best of luck to you!

NTA for giving the ring back, but you are for staying with him. He gave you a shut up ring and you took it. You gave it back You know he is NEVER going to marry you. Now you’re staying, because it’s comfortable and you don’t want to start over. You’ve put too much time into this relationship. You shouldn’t have to give up your dreams and settle for this man. He’s not worth it. The resentment that will come with this will eat you and you will be one a bitter and hateful person.

Please get some counseling and dump him. You are worthy of love, marriage and happiness.

NTA if he’s unhappy about you expressing your feelings to his face, he should look at how he expressed behind your back.

The two of you have already gone through more struggles than most marriages have, but showing the act of commitment is what he’s weighing up?! That’s just pathetic. Guys should trying pretending to be pregnant for 9 months, and kicked in the balls a few times then have their partners acting unsure about committing – I would love to see that.

ESH. That honestly why I hate wedding that much : so many awesome couple, living together in harmony, going through tough challenges… only to be ripped apart by disagreements about a day of party.

You have been together 8 years. You have a child together. You have been through so many challenges. What will a piece of paper change in that ? It’s not more commitment that what he showed you so far. If you want a party, just plan a party.

Tbh it’s not about being an AH, you overheard a convo that you weren’t supposed to be a part of which may or may not offer insight into his intent. You guys have to talk this out in-depth, giving a ring back and being passive aggressive is only going to grow resentment and prolong the inevitable. If you aren’t both on the same page, why keep wasting your time? You gotta talk it out and figure out what you want to do from there.

If you’ve been engaged for 4 years, and now is not the time, when will it be? It feels like there will always be another reason why not. But if you still continue the relationship and live under the same roof, you’ll be back where you started. I don’t think the trust level will be the increase even though you’ve given the ring back. You’ve wanted it, and now he’s poured cold water on it. NTA.

You’re not the asshole for how you handled the situation. Your feelings about his comments and your desire for clarity in your relationship are completely valid. It’s understandable to be hurt by his joking about dragging his feet on marriage, especially after you’ve been engaged for a long time.

NTA.

reinforce that

> goes “that’s why I’ve been dragging my feet on marriage”

his own friends tells you that he doesn’t want to get married to you. It’s not just locker room talk. You don’t say those things if you want to get married or actually respect your significant other.

NTA for me. his words were hurtful, and i understand why u’re feeling hurt and uncertain. u deserve clarity and commitment and not dismissiveness. good move at taking a step back. If he still sees it as a trap or something to weigh the pros and cons then u deserve better!

NTA. But after 8 years and a child he needs to weigh the pros and cons…are you effing kidding me??!! Why are you still with him. He clearly doesn’t value your relationship the way you do. And NO, you’re not being extreme.. in fact, you’re not being extreme enough IMO.

You’re not the asshole here. You deserve someone who is excited to marry you and commit to your future together. If your fiancé is having second thoughts, maybe it’s the right time to reassess your relationship with him

NTA. If you want to stay in this relationship, you absolutely should be realistic about what you can expect from it. He is not being honest about what he wants, and you’re right to insist that he start.

It’s understandable that you’d feel hurt by his comment and the lack of communication about marriage. Open discussions are crucial, and it seems like you’re trying to express your feelings honestly.

Yeah you need to figure out what’s best for you. Just you.

He is not commitment material.

Sorry.

But the good news is young brilliant and the world is your oyster. Enjoy it to the fullest.

He doesn’t want to marry you. He doesn’t love you at all… You’re just a maid and an incubator to him… He will marry the girl he wants to marry and that won’t even take 8months!

Girl run!

NTA. He doesn’t sound like the marrying type. He just sounds like a dick. Besides, you can do way better than someone who admitted to dragging their feet about getting married.

NTA, if you’re not really going to get married, you’re not really engaged, so you’re certainly free to return a ring that symbolized a promise that isn’t anymore.

“We need to weigh the pros and cons” he’s had FOUR YEARS since proposing to think about that. He absolutely doesn’t want to get married; if he did, you would be.

NTA Your feelings are valid, and you have every right to express your concerns about his comments and what they imply about his commitment to marriage.

So you are living together and have a child together, but he is worried about being married? I’m confused what he thinks will be different. NTA, OP!

As a general rule, an approximate date for the wedding (e.g. the month and city) should be set within a week of engagement.

> We can still be together but I don’t want my hopes up.

If you want to get married, why is this a thing?

NTA. I’d start weighing the pros and cons of a lot of things if I were you.

Stop. This is locker room talk.

It’s pure meaningless banter.

YTA, you know it means sex will stop b/c it usually does.

Good on you!! You basically gave his “shut up ring” back.

He sounds pretty emotionally immature.

A dud. Stay with him at your own risk.

You dodged a bullet. Good move.